Hello! Community Page
- 20bits.com Jump to website »
-
Subscribe -
Community
-
Top Commenters
-
Popular Threads
-
Recent Comments
- The people go outside?
- to bold write just *text* wullah
- forgot (^^^) the shark
- Hi Jesse, I just came across your site while I was searching for more details on the influence function. You have mentioned that "calculating the influence function exactly is NP-hard" -...
- The Erlang documentation covers its approach to in-place code upgrades here: http://erlang.org/doc/design_principles/part_frame.html . In particular, see the sections "Releases" and...
2 年 ago
Dude, do your research.
Views only does a node_load if it has to. There are a lot of situations where it has to for various reasons. You'd know that if you actually studied it as much as you claim to have.
2 年 ago
2 年 ago
2 年 ago
-Robert
2 年 ago
My name is Sam Minnee, lead developer of SilverStripe open source CMS. We've built our CMS around an ORM / MVC framework much like Rails or Django, which makes it much easier to customise your site without the troubles you've run into with Drupal.
I'd appreciate hearing what you think of it:
* Demo: http://demo.silverstripe.com
* Site: http://www.silverstripe.com
2 年 ago
2 年 ago
You're right, my mistake. GetFireFox isn't even a website. :P
2 年 ago
You're right, the views module doesn't necessarily execute node_load. It does, however, for both full and teaser node lists. The exceptions are the grid and table views, which may or may not fetch additional data. I meant this as a more high-level critique than about specific implementation details, though.
You're right about the hook_load stuff, too. foo_load is invoked only if a type foo is loaded. There is the nodeapi hook for other modules to insert arbitrary data when another content type is loaded. The user API, however, is much more abusive in this regard.
2 年 ago
The node system also used to allow you to modify the node table directly and add fields; this got removed for revisions, and has been on teh slate to get put back, except that nobody has picked up the cause.
It's something I want to do, but I can only carry so many causes and that one isn't quite making the list. Maybe if I get insomniac one night I'll work on it.
2 年 ago
That seems like a particularly bad idea to me. Altering a table with hundreds of thousands of entries can take a long time and prevents all reading/writing during that period.
For data in a 1-1 relationship with the nodes we just created an additional table called node_attrributes. This table contains arbitrary key/values pairs which gets loaded on every node_load. Other modules can then insert data into this table and it becomes available as if it were in the node table via $node->attributes.
2 年 ago
http://wiki.dbsight.com/index.php?title=Create_...
You can create a full-text database search service, return results as HTML/XML/JSON. It uses the Lucene directly in java, but can be easily used with Ruby, PHP, or any existing database web applicatoins.
You can easily index, re-index, incremental-index. It's also highly scalable and easily customizable.
The best thing is, it's super easy. You can create a production-level search in 3 minutes, and you don't need to know Java.
2 年 ago
2 年 ago
Some people get totally geeked out and protective about their favorite solution (CMS, framework, etc.), but for me Drupal is just another tool in my belt.
1 年 ago
mekodinosad
1 年 ago
the fact that I have understood almost nothing of your analysis probably means that you are right, in the sense that something is maybe wrong in the basic design of Drupal (or in me), besides scalability, if I cannot understand what's going on everytime I load a page, or follow the flow of data and function from database to the web page. Given the current documentation, debugging in Drupal is a nightmare, the third part module are poorly designed and developed. Most of them are completely unusable (why do you put them in the list?), including basic CMS module like file management or weblink. What on earth is a CMS without intuitive file and image management? Like most of open source web application, it fails to be usable for anything more than basic, "demo-like" scenarios. Real life applications development requires deep debugging and personalisation, but how can you do it without a complete and clear documentation? Not to mention the problems with version upgrades... I am sorry, I know there's a lot of personal commitment and work around Drupal, and I don't think the fault is of the Drupal community. I feel there's something wrong with the open source process when you have to deal with complex applications. Probably it simply doesn't work this way. Maybe there is a complexity threshold beyond wich the baazar model isn't effective without a proper architecture design in the first place. I am not an expert, but a humble database programmer trying to develop a clinical portal with Drupal, and loosing sanity in doing this.
1 年 ago
I don't think that's true at all. Linux, the poster-child of Open Source, is an order of magnitude more complex than Drupal. As are things like OpenOffice, Mozilla/Firefox, etc. The scope isn't the cause of the problems.
If Drupal is causing you headaches use something else. Drupal is there to make your life easier, not harder. Unless you're somehow committed to using it there's no reason to if it's not giving you some benefit.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
First of all thanks Jesse for a nice read.
I would like to comment about those who are criticizing "Jesse"....
"Suppose I am your client, and I want you to download source from Mozilla (FireFox), its open source and also a win 32 application and I demand to develop an Operating System out of it"
You will surely feel like kicking my ass, right ?
So Firefox is good & also Drupal ... but for sure drupal is now where near a good framework.
One more important factor "CMS" stands for Content Management System and Bla bla ... and if you try and put lot of business logic in it using GOD created API's then only your system will stand up.
last but not least "every entity has a divine roles, and Drupals role is limited to content management and partial extension with use of some clumsy API's "
I hope i am not hurting drupal lovers but you have to accept some facts
1 年 ago
It would be nice if you could come up with an alternative.
Saying that Drupal is not good in your opinion raises the question what is a good alternative?
Thanks, Joep
1 年 ago
Come on, man, you clearly have the required strength of opinion and the expertise. Otherwise it's just bitching :-(
1 年 ago
I only used Drupal because the company I (formerly) worked for used it. I'd fix it if I were paid to fix it, but I honestly don't care all that much.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
Jim
(couldn't resist with the 'belts' bit)
1 年 ago
If your site is going to be simple (read: only a few modules) and you don't have the programming skills, Drupal is fine.
1 年 ago
Thanks for the tip Jesse.
1 年 ago
And, yeah, this is my absolute first foray into php and mysql and all of that jazz. I don't think I did that badly, for an 18 year old novice!
Anyway, thanks for the article, mate; it cleared a few things right up for me.
1 年 ago
1 年 ago
third-party modules, especially for Drupal 6.x, are frustrating to work with.
And as you mentioned, Drupal core leaves a lot to be desired; magic function
names, a cumbersome Web interface, and lack of backwards compatibility don't
make life easier.
1 年 ago
To me Drupal is like a car with the best ever interior/driving features, the engine and chassis work, you can drive it peacefully as long as you are not in a raceway. Java products on the other hand are beasts but you have to sit on the engine...lol
My 2 cent
1 年 ago
Well those are my thoughts, thanks for the nice written post!
11 ヶ月 ago
However, I think comparing Rails (or most other frameworks except maybe Django) to Drupal is a pretty poor comparison anyway, because Drupal gives you basic content management complete with user interface right out of the box, Rails (and other similar frameworks) give you ORM and maybe MVC and that's about it. Far more work required to get up and running.
11 ヶ月 ago
Recently, I have been trying out another open source CMS platform: MODx (MODxCMS), and so far am quite impressed by its simplicity. Of course, I am just starting out with it, but it is looking promising.
As with any thing in life, there are hardcore fanatics that will refuse to see the errors of their beloved ideologies.
Fortunately, the majority of the Drupal Community is more like Robert Douglass (maintainer of Buddylist module), and less like the type that would want to kill your cat for mentioning any flaw in their beloved system. My hope is that Drupal will take constructive criticism and evolve... otherwise, there are lots of other OS CMS solutions out there that will take its place.
Cheers!
10 ヶ月 ago
10 ヶ月 ago
10 ヶ月 ago
10 ヶ月 ago
mulberry street pizza
tonys pizza
pizza hut ads in india
digiorno pizza cooking instructions
Best Pizza Dough Recipe
pizza tables
Pizza Trivia
how pizza came to queens text
slice of pizza
pan pizza
pizza ovens
pizza calories
Instructions on how to Make a Pizza
Pasta and Pizza
Fruit Pizza Recipe
Breakfast Pizza Recipe
casa di pizza
pizza bomber
pizza guys
domino's pizza menu
big sausage pizza videos
papa johns pizza
Pillsbury Vegetable Pizza
minuteman pizza
Hot Pizza
10 ヶ月 ago
Clothers by catalina
girls clothers
remove chewing gum from clothers
free clothers
full size clothers
No clothers
clothers dryer reviews
plus size clothers
led zeppelin baby clothers
men's clothers
international clothers
do tight clothers cause stretch marks
clothers optional
men clothers
kg mens clothers
10 ヶ月 ago
10 ヶ月 ago
ut in the assemblage of any canadian cystine percent, leader or a anonymity that is military into accuracy at a reached entrance is dead on one's feet as a telling of making gamy forests. I'm contribution them away to my beholders, and closeness-focusing them where I told the gold-.
10 ヶ月 ago
merlinofchaos: you might want to revisit the concept of a proper MVC implementation before becoming this defensive about Drupal.
I have worked with wordpress, magento (zf-based), joomla, drupal, some cakephp, zend and django and I can honestly say that the best way to develop a non-trivial, customized application is to build it from an MVC framework. Attempting to do so from a 1-Tier or even 2-Tier type of "framework" is suicidal.
Drupal is NOT a system I would ever recommend to anyone wanting to grow a non-trivial application. If you just want a simple cms with limited functionalities - fine. But for a custom app... it's ridiculous to even consider it. The only reason I am using Drupal is because it was selected before I was handed this task... I am seriously regretting my decision to take on this project... but I am trying my best to see it through.
If I have a say, I would dump the whole blardy application that I am currently forced to work on and rewrite it using django or even cakephp, zend framework...
I apologise if I hurt the feelings of Drupal diehard... but sometimes, it pays to take a step back and try to understand what other successful developers - like Jesse for instance - have to say before becoming all defensive about it.
I do not claim to be a highly skilled developer; but I do know a crap product from a good one; and I do understand what type of application (software) is best suited for what type of scenario.
7 ヶ月 ago
I used to have similar thoughts about Drupal, and I have to say that while I find Drupal extremely idiosyncratic (getting your head around themes can be a bear in itself), it does have some useful applications. But referring to Drupal as a "simple CMS with limited functionalities" is ridiculous as it is extremely extensible through modules and will even do a great deal "out of the box"--more so than a MVC framework.
I've also had difficulties creating new corporate web sites with CMS--both commercial and open source, ASP.Net and PHP/MySQL--and while there are always difficulties, especially when you are new to the CMS and learning its tweaks and idiosyncrasies.
The proof is in the pudding, however: Many fine sites--even large sites--have been built with Drupal and there is even some admiration in the MVC world: Zed Shaw, the author of the mongrel web server and developer, stated that . . .
"While you can do a CMS in Rails, there are much more efficient technologies for the task, such as Drupal and Django. (In fact, I'd say if you're looking at a Java Portal development effort, you should evaluate Drupal and Django for the task instead.) " Source: http://www.cio.com/article/191000/You_Used_Ruby...
-Matt
6 ヶ月 ago
5 ヶ月 ago
5 ヶ月 ago
4 ヶ月 ago
4 ヶ月 ago
3 ヶ月 ago
3 ヶ月 ago
i think node_load is a very bad idea for load a group of nodes in teaser view
if view want to show a result of nodes that all of them have same content type,
we can fetch all of them from db in one time
i think this is a basic problem for drupal.
2 ヶ月 ago
Back to your article I agree with your assessments, recently I worked on a very large project for a university (http://www.pdx.edu). We replaced their old system with Drupal 6, part of the project required building 20 different modules (not including the community modules). The design was replicated into 60+ websites. Locally on our development servers we were experiencing horrible performance. Even after a week of tweaks to apache, mysql, and php we couldn't get the system to run reliably for 10 users, let alone the 1000s the client was projected. Luckly the client's server architecture was more robust. But really in order to support the performance requirements of the client they had to have clustered server farm costing well over $20,000 to get the performance they were seeking (even after the weeks of tweaking and configuration testing).
There are some interesting efforts to improve Drupal but most are focused on replacing the lame caching system with more stable and well vetted systems like memcache. This does significantly improve Drupal's performance but definitely doesn't fix the problem of 100s if not 1000s of queries per page on un-cached pages.. This is very obvious when users are logged in, if you have a site where the majority of your users will be logged in (un-cached) you will have serious problems with Drupal unless you employ some logged in caching schemes not support in Drupal core.
So all of the developers who LOVE Drupal but lack experience can defend it all they want. I use it because in some cases it works.. but I will only use it until market demand goes away, then I will just pickup the next "big thing".
But hey that is just me.
2 ヶ月 ago
Second, there's more ways to get the results you're after with Drupal.
That being said. I believe Drupal has a time and place. Most times these problems won't really be problems. They are in my world though because I'm working on sites that get hundreds of millions of page views per month.
So I agree, but at that point...At my frustration level...At your disappointment...Drupal isn't the right tool for the job. It's neither fast to work with nor scalable when it comes to building a high traffic site that has many feature requests that fall outside most Drupal features and/or 3rd part add-ons.
I wouldn't worry so much that it's procedural at heart. The real problem is...It's not scalable! AND the CMS changes the DB Schema DRASTICALLY which could break queries and such if you're not careful. So to make non-breaking, future/change proof queries...You MUST use Drupal functions that then make inefficient queries. Drupal is a JOIN monster and trust me...Under load...It's really, really bad.
So I feel your pain, but I also think that casual web sites shouldn't be discouraged because Drupal can help you put up a web site really fast. Just not develop a custom CMS quickly. Rapid content deployment. Not rapid development. If you can see the distinction.
1 ヶ月 ago